Legendary NBA player Scottie Pippen says that he was never able to win the Defensive Player of the Year award because the media was too busy watching his teammate, Michael Jordan. Pippen made the claim during a new interview with Bastien Fontanieu for Trash Talk.

“I think they were too busy watching Michael [Jordan],” Pippen explained when asked why he, a Hall of Famer widely considered one of the best defenders of all time, was never given the award.

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Later, Pippen shared defensive tips for young guys in the league looking to improve on that side of the game.

“I would always lean on the wall for three to five minutes, put myself in a defensive stance, I sort of adapted wanting to be in that stance when I’m out on that basketball court,” Pippen said. “When I was a young kid, my coach used to tell me that I stood up too much, so I had to learn to play lower.”

Pippen averaged 2.0 steals and 0.8 blocks throughout his career. His teammates, Dennis Rodman and Michael Jordan, both won the award at separate points during their careers.

Last year, Pippen labeled Jordan’s decision to retire and play professional baseball a “selfish” one during an interview on the Dan Patrick Show.

“Yeah It was a big decision, but It was a selfish decision, but it was kind of who Michael Jordan was,” Pippen said at the time. “That was a guy who believed he can do anything on his own.”

Check out Pippen’s appearance on Trash Talk below.